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Filling "gaps" on the map / Another option to capt

 
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Ricochet
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Joined: 19 Aug 2005
Posts: 757

PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 8:21 pm    Post subject: Filling "gaps" on the map / Another option to capt Reply with quote

Hi all,

in order to use the empy space on the map better it is possible to build up to 6 castles.

However I would still like to find a way for players to capture more land peacefully. Espeaciall the little pieces of unconquered land between the individual kingdoms are bother me.

So let's think of ways how we could make use of such land.

So far I had the following ideas:

1. Give the Townhalls new functionality.
Townhalls could be equipped with the option to "claim" certain pieces of uncaptured land. So you would pay some of your ressources to turn some land at coordinates XX:YY into your land, but only up to a certin distance from your castles. Maybe combined with a "cool down" time until you can do the next claim.

or the other idea:

2. Once a castle reaches level 20 or so , it would capture fields in a radius of 1 or two fields bigger than its origial radius. But of coure it would only capture land that has not been captured before.


Let me know what you think. Perhaps you have completely different Ideas?
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Sevink



Joined: 10 Feb 2017
Posts: 21

PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like both options, but I think I like the townhall one more. Gives townhalls more purpose =)

The second option does sound like a Civ type land expansion. Also appealing.
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ShieldHeart1



Joined: 06 Dec 2016
Posts: 72

PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cool! It's great to see you are sharing these and building the ideas with the community!

Ricochet wrote:
1. Give the Townhalls new functionality.
Townhalls could be equipped with the option to "claim" certain pieces of uncaptured land. So you would pay some of your ressources to turn some land at coordinates XX:YY into your land, but only up to a certin distance from your castles. Maybe combined with a "cool down" time until you can do the next claim.


I like something like this. I think if you do implement it, a player should only be able to expand from existing land. It will however raise questions about what happens to the expanded land when a castle is captured and the land is cut off from the rest of the kingdom.

Ricochet wrote:
2. Once a castle reaches level 20 or so , it would capture fields in a radius of 1 or two fields bigger than its origial radius. But of coure it would only capture land that has not been captured before.


This one I'm not sure about, depending on how everyone settled around a castle, some castles might have room to expand while others have barely any. So those lucky enough to have room around them will have a pretty big advantage when they get their castle to lv20. It would also allow players who came early to herald the good castles with lots of room to expand, giving them another advantage over players that join later.



3rd Suggestion: This might be a bit elaborate so it might have some flaws we have to think about at first, but I think it would create some interesting gameplay, especially when creating strategies in wars.

Create a new building called "Outpost" or something of that sorts. This outpost can be built like castles (no distance rules but must still be built on kingdom's land). They work similar to castles but expand the land in a smaller radius. These buildings require a parent castle at level X as well as a townhall at level Y. There can only be as many outposts as you have castles and townhalls (ie one castle and one townhall at the right required levels will allow you to produce one outpost, we can always think about and refine these details later).

These outposts can't produce troops, but they can be used to garrison troops, launch attacks, and can be defended like castles... and here's the twist - they can also be occupied by enemy troops too should they successfully attack and occupy it! As long as enemy troops occupy an outpost - the land the outpost added is "occupied" and buildings there are inoperable and do not produce resources for the defending kingdom until the enemy troops retreat or are defeated. An occupying kingdom cannot fully capture an outpost's fields or use it to launch attacks until the parent castle is conquered.

I think something like this would make for some very interesting war strategies and make wars more interesting in general while at the same time allow players to fill in those gaps and make a kind of forward base. Critiques/additions welcome!
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xidrianx



Joined: 26 Jan 2017
Posts: 29

PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 3:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Townhalls serve a good purpose now, I won't deny that. Look around my land, there's enough to keep my upgrading busy :p but I have had SEVERAL newer players message me asking what do they do after level 5, and when I reply "nothing besides points" they always have this o.0 look on their face. I like shields idea for the outposts, it will give more advancement (with strategic placing of them of course haha :p) and it gives a purpose to upgrade them more.
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ExoKruzer



Joined: 09 Feb 2017
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 12:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like all of these ideas, but here is another the throw into the mix.

Perhaps make townhalls give 1 extra "claim" every second level. Making it cost more to upgrade the townhall should balance it out. Limiting the number of townhalls based on troop count may also help slow new folks from claiming quickly. This gives them a purpose for leveling. If the extra construction slots is an issue, the upgrade could be moved to its own building, encouraging expansion in order to have more and still make resources.
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HatchetMan302



Joined: 07 Feb 2017
Posts: 37

PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 1:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ShieldHeart1 wrote:
These outposts can't produce troops, but they can be used to garrison troops, launch attacks, and can be defended like castles... and here's the twist - they can also be occupied by enemy troops too should they successfully attack and occupy it! As long as enemy troops occupy an outpost - the land the outpost added is "occupied" and buildings there are inoperable and do not produce resources for the defending kingdom until the enemy troops retreat or are defeated. An occupying kingdom cannot fully capture an outpost's fields or use it to launch attacks until the parent castle is conquered.


I like this idea, but would the "captured" buildings become usable by the enemy, or would they just be "out of order" until the castle is captured?
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ShieldHeart1



Joined: 06 Dec 2016
Posts: 72

PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 3:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

HatchetMan302 wrote:

I like this idea, but would the "captured" buildings become usable by the enemy, or would they just be "out of order" until the castle is captured?


The way I imagine it now, the new fields added by building an outpost, and any buildings built on them would be out of order when an invading force is occupying the outpost. Maybe we can add more reasons for attackers to occupy it by adding a mechanic that would reduce the level of occupied buildings by 1 for every day of successful occupation, perhaps even some pillaging bonus in resources.

The enemy can only use the outpost to launch attacks after conquering the parent castle also, after which the castle, the outpost, and all the associated fields would be his. All buildings except for the castle and outpost itself would be destroyed (this is how it works right now when you conquer a castle), and the new conqueror can build on the new land as he or she pleases.

Two things I should add:

The outpost would ONLY allow for troops of the parent castle to be launched from it. Otherwise large kingdoms could just pile all their troops in a single outpost and launch multitudes of massive assaults straight from their border - would not make things very fair.

Each castle can only have 1 outpost, This would make sure that players can't build extending outpost chains to ridiculous lengths or use it to cut off other players.

This is probably getting a bit too much into detail for this thread, but I am liking this more and more as I think about it. Perhaps if enough people like the idea I'll make a dedicated thread for it explaining all of this in full, with some diagrams, the land that outposts could expand, etc and continue the discussion there.
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HatchetMan302



Joined: 07 Feb 2017
Posts: 37

PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 4:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What about the area that an outpost covers starts small (maybe only 1 block radius around it), and then by upgrading it you unlock more range.
Outposts could also have garrison capacity, so upgrading it also increases it's capacity to hold troops. The way I am thinking of it is like this:

Level:
1-6 = distance of 1; 1k troop capacity
7-12 = distance of 2; 10k troop capacity
13-19 = distance of 3; 25k troop capacity
20 = distance of 4 (same range as a castle); 50k troop capacity

Another possibility could be to have the troop capacity increase with each level, and leave the range at certain checkpoint levels.
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qwerqwerqwer



Joined: 13 Feb 2017
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it just feels better, as a player, that every upgrade to a building provides a benefit (besides points*), incremental or not.

Likewise forge levels could possibly speed up researches (even if the base research time is adjusted upward)

*It seems as if amassing points are actually a downside? Since that negatively affects the morale calculation.

--

Also, unrelated suggestion. I think that you should be able to pull up the attack screen directly from clicking another castle (with the coordinates copied over). I bring this up because if we're going with Townhalls that can claim land by inputting coordinates, we should be able to click on an unclaimed piece of land and go to the townhall territory adding screen.

Just a fairly needed quality-of-life change imo.
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ShieldHeart1



Joined: 06 Dec 2016
Posts: 72

PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 1:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

HatchetMan302 wrote:
What about the area that an outpost covers starts small (maybe only 1 block radius around it), and then by upgrading it you unlock more range.
Outposts could also have garrison capacity, so upgrading it also increases it's capacity to hold troops. The way I am thinking of it is like this:

Level:
1-6 = distance of 1; 1k troop capacity
7-12 = distance of 2; 10k troop capacity
13-19 = distance of 3; 25k troop capacity
20 = distance of 4 (same range as a castle); 50k troop capacity

Another possibility could be to have the troop capacity increase with each level, and leave the range at certain checkpoint levels.


Interesting ideas, I haven't really considered the expanding borders every level, but it could work, the question becomes how many fields per level and in what direction. In the other hand I like the one-time build and getting a set amount of fields, simply because you know what you will be getting when you first build it and there isn't a prolonged battle for more fields with the outposts of those around you, also avoids a bigger player from maxing their outpost first, grabbing all the land and leaving another players outpost with no more fields to grab, no matter how much he upgrades it now.

Haha I think I'm getting a bit too much into the detail of this, when I have some time soon I'll make a dedicated thread proposing this idea and the start of how I think it should work, with some diagrams.

qwerqwerqwer wrote:
I think it just feels better, as a player, that every upgrade to a building provides a benefit (besides points*), incremental or not.


Agreed, I think all buildings other than the forge and townhall have some kind of improvement at every level increase, and some new ideas about adding function to the townhall are coming up. I'm personally ok with how the forge works now.

qwerqwerqwer wrote:
Also, unrelated suggestion. I think that you should be able to pull up the attack screen directly from clicking another castle (with the coordinates copied over). I bring this up because if we're going with Townhalls that can claim land by inputting coordinates, we should be able to click on an unclaimed piece of land and go to the townhall territory adding screen.


You might have come across this already now, but there's a new player that seems to have some pretty good suggestions about changing the orders/attack screen and how it can be pulled up, Rico seems to have taken a liking to a lot of them.

I like what you are asking, I wonder if we can pull this up by doing a right click on the map, for example on a castle, and choosing from some options - attack, reinforce, etc. and after which it copies the coordinates like you said and brings up the appropriate page.
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Ricochet
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Joined: 19 Aug 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 9:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think I like the outpost idea.

One problematic point though is the connection to the parent castle.
That is not really compatible with my game engine. Though I like the concept, that only one (the parent) castle can have units in the outpost.
(I should remember that concept for CA2)

A very easy to implement outpost would be a clone of the castle without the ability to recruit and perhaps also without the ability to give orders.
Also the maximum level could be limited in order to limit the defense bonus.

The radius that such outpost conquers could be 2 or 3 instead of 4 (castle).

The number of outposts should be limited somehow. Perhaps to the number of castles of a certain level.
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